GKR-Forum

a_6.jpg a_6.jpg

#1

Re: Incorrect allocation of 2019 IKGH European Championship Shows Bill Galbally -

in Ausstellungen 28.12.2018 08:58
von franzpeter | 9.445 Beiträge

Steve & Team,

Firstly - apologies if I have not used the most up-to-date distribution list -
this is the latest I can find. Please forward on to anyone I have missed.

I agree that the calculations SHOULD be straightforward, as we have just recently
held an IKGH meeting in Slovakia, where we settled the confusion in the rules
relating to the allocations of shows since you became President. However - the
2019 EC show allocation is wrong.

THE RULES ARE CLEAR!
in the current Rule book 2015 see supplement 4 on page 38 = sections 4. and 8.
4. Five IKGH members are allocated a European Championship show by their
participation in EC shows
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
8. The other two EC shows must be given to those Associations that have not
organised an EC Show for the longest time, with the condition that they make an
application for an EC show according to the IHS.

5+2=7

These rules were explained by our former President Eddy Vanvoorden last year
during confusion. Again this year when some were confused at the IKGH
Meeting, Denis Barbe clarified by producing the rule book & pointing out the
section on show allocation:

5 shows are awarded to winning clubs on merit (i.e. in relation to their position
in the league table and points scored. 2 shows are then awarded to clubs who have
not shown for the longest time. 5 + 2 = 7 shows each for Trios and Pairs. It
could not be simpler? An added complication is that the President in his/her
generosity can decide to award an extra show - but this is not compulsory or
necessarily expected. I note that previous Presidents have shown such
generosity.
Clarity:
I noted at the IKGH meeting that yourself Steve and others were confused by the
method at which the 5 shows awarded on merit were calculated. It is a relatively
straightforward calculation which again Denis Barbe explained: 1 show goes to
the winners of of each tail general class i.e. Broad Tail, Sword Tail, Short
Tail, making 3. Then 2 shows are awarded to the two competitors with the highest
points not covered by the general class winners. This can mean 2 in the same
general Tail Categories or from different, depending on the results. Previous
confusion was due to an expectation that there should be 3 shows available here -
one for each of the runners-up. Denis clearly explained that this is not the
case - it is simply the next 2 highest scores = in any Tail Category.

The shows for 2019 are not allocated as per the Rules. The whole point of the 2
days of IKGH Meeting was to clarify rules so the expectation is that we now stick
to them?

5 shows proposal not carried
A proposal from the President at the IKGH meeting that there should be only 5
shows each in Trios and Pairs. This - alongside other proposals on changing the
number for shows allocation, was subject to as much discussion at the meeting as
all the other proposals put together. The only proposal on this subject that was
carried was that a club can now host both a Trios and a Pairs show. All others
were not carried. This included the President's proposal stating that we should
go to 5 shows only. This was rejected in open debate & cannot be changed post the
IKGH Meeting.

If this was all clarified so recently at an IKGH meeting - EC Shows should be
allocated correctly? The President stated twice at the meeting, once at the
start, and once at the finish, that "the President is simply an administrator,
here to carry out the wishes and decisions of the IKGH - it is your meeting and
for you as the IKGH members to decide on the rules, not me." So we are
expecting you to carry this out rather than make arbitrary decisions post the
event.

Everyone who applied for a Trios Show has one so I think everyone will agree with
you that this calculation here has been straightforward & agreed.

For Pairs Show, the number is 5 but the Rules state 7.
3 shows awarded for merit i.e. one to each of the winners of each Tail Category
(Broad, Sword, Short). 2 shows awarded for clubs that have not had shows for the
longest time. Missing are the 2 shows awarded for highest pointed Category.

You state below that you do not understand this category - but lack of
understanding is no reason not to follow the rule and precedence - especially as
it was specifically discussed and fully explained at the recent IKGH meeting. The
rules are the rules, and THE RULES ARE CLEAR! If, as you state, you are
personally unclear on these rules, or feel that they are "unfair and prejudicial"
(I can't think why - it has not caused any issue with anyone else) - then you
should propose to change them and we as an organisation should vote on this. But
until that is done, the rules are the rules. I again remind everyone that we
JUST HAD the discussion on moving to 5 shows and it was NOT carried at the IKGH
Meeting.

You then go on to state that the winners deserve their prize of a show but you
are here specifically excluding this?
Why do you use the term "alleged" for the two other shows to be awarded for the
highest pointed winners? This is not alleged in any way, shape, or form. It is
simply & very clearly written in the rules.
I for one agree with you that the winners deserve their prize - so let's not seek
to restrict this.

I also agree that Clubs not taking part in other EC shows is a problem. We have
suffered this in the past in my own Club (FGUK) but we made a concerted effort to
address this. Result was that we had 11 members SHOWING ABROAD (i.e. not counting
the local in-country show) in 2017 which put as 3rd in terms of members showing,
behind only Poland and Germany. We were gaining real momentum here, so what a
pity it was all totally disrupted by several people deciding to leave and set up
there own "clubs" for individuals - throwing the progress completely off course
for 2018.

To address this issue, IKGH might want to in future consider a merit system of
awarding a show to a smaller club that has shown itself to be actively
participating as much as could be expected given their circumstances. Or come up
with some other method to reward and encourage participation.

You also state that "the more experienced breeders know that a total of 10 EC
shows per year is enough and that 14 EC shows per year is too much."
I challenge that. We have plenty of experienced breeders such as 2 former IKGH
Presidents have proved by awarding 14 shows in a season that they would not
agree. It is not the experience of a breeder that predicates this viewpoint, but
the certainty of being guaranteed a show. As far as I can tell the only people
agreeing that 5 shows is more than enough come from Germany and Austria -
countries that have themselves NEVER missed an EC show season and are highly
unlikely to do so ever in future. So it is easy for them to agree such measures.
In fact these breeders are very open and honest in their reasoning for limiting
the number of shows - the less shows there are, the more it forces IKGH
competitors to send fish to their guaranteed shows!
I CALL ON THOSE SEEKING TO LIMIT THE NUMBER OF SHOWS TO BELOW THAT DEMANDED BY
THE PRESENT RULES TO DO THE HONOURABLE THING AND GIVE UP THEIR OWN SHOWS,
before imposing such unwanted restrictions only on others.
An alternative view is that by restricting Shows you are restricting the
availability of good fish genetics being distributed around Europe which limits
the hobby - why would anyone want to do that?

Can we therefore ask Steve that you carry out the duties of IKGH President
properly and appropriately according to the current rules, and award 7 pairs
shows for this coming season of 2019.


Bill Galbally
Chairman
Fancy Guppies UK

________________________________
From: Stephen Elliott
Sent: 11 December 2018 08:04
To: IKGH.Presidenteurope.com
Subject: Allocation of 2019 IKGH European Championship Show status




IKGH 2019 European Championship Show Status

We are at the end of the 2018 show season.

I congratulate all competitors and also all the clubs that organised a European
Championship Show.

I attach the final results, Congratulations to all the winners. I thank Peter for
his work with this and for the website that has shown all the results as they
have become available.

So now the question that everyone is asking. Who will be awarded a European
Championship show for 2019?

I am sure that everyone is aware that applications can be accepted up to the 30th
November and until then we don’t know who has applied for an EC show. This is
the reason for the delay in publishing the 2019 European Championship list.
Indeed there was more than one application received just in time !



As previously in 2017 the calculations seem straight forward and are according to
the rules.

The easy part is the three winners of the competition classes and the two clubs
that have not had a show for the longest time. This gives 5 shows (a total of 10
when pairs and trios are added together).

The part that some think should be considered is the alleged two other shows for
highest pointed winners. This is not clear in the rules. How would we select two
from the three categories ? Do we simply say the highest pointed from all three
categories amalgamated is selected ? Potentially the two could then be selected
from one category which would then exclude the other two which seems unfair and
prejudicial.

I agree that the awarding of EC status should be won in competition. For those
that suggest it is always the same clubs that win and so exclude the newer and
less able clubs, I would say that the winners deserve their prize but I also see
the wisdom of having two shows selected from those that have not had an EC show
for the longest time.







European Championship Show status should be an honour and privilege and not
simply something available to every show. This would devalue the competition.

The more experienced breeders know that a total of 10 EC shows per year is enough
and that 14 EC shows per year is too much.

Others, I have been told, are only interested to hold a EC show themselves in the
mistaken belief that it will bring their club prosperity. These are also the
people that do not seem to take part in the competition themselves and support
other shows, but they still want to host an EC show. They seem to have a selfish
opinion and not one regarding the general benefit of the IKGH membership and EC
competition.

On this occasion I also have to consider that one club has been awarded both a
pairs show and a trio show at the same event. I am completely satisfied that they
have the experience, capability and resources to do this and congratulate them in
being the first ever to do this.



After careful consideration I confirm the following EC status for 2019 with their
show date:

Pairs

Large tails

1st Place Hermann Ernst Magoschitz DGD did not apply

2nd Place Jan Budai SZCH 1st
June



Sword tails

1st Place Michael Milde ÖGG
27th July 2019



Short tails

1st Place Cristian Sologni GGC 21st
September 2019







The other clubs that applied for a European Championship Show for pairs, with the
date of their last European Championship Show were:

Show date Club Date of last EC show

15th June CAGD 7th July 2018

10TH August HWGC Never hosted

24th August FGUK 29th September 2018

7th September KPR 8th September 2018

5th October AME Never hosted



>From the list, it is clear that HWGC and AME have not had an EC show for the
>longest time !

That gives a total of five 2019 European Championship shows for pairs.



SZCH 1st June Slovakia

ÖGG 27th July Austria

HWGC 10th August Poland

GGC 21st September Italy

AME 5th October Hungary.











Trios

This is slightly easier to calculate. There are 6 clubs in total that have
applied.

Poland PTAT 27th April 2019

France EGS 18th May 2019

Italy AIAG 29th June 2019

Germany DGD 13th July 2019

Austria ÖGG 27th July 2019

France AVF 12th October 2019



3 are selected from the winners of the European Championship competition 2018. 2
are selected from the remaining clubs who have not had a show for the longest
time. That leaves one lone ‘losing ‘ club. As per my statement last year I
think it unreasonable that one club is disappointed by this situation, so I use
my ability as President to award an additional EC status and confirm that all six
applicants are awarded EC status for 2019 without the need of calculation.





Furthermore, I note that there are 4 pairs shows for 2019 and also 5 shows for
trios, and one show that is hosting both a Trio competition and a Pairs
competition. I would like to award an extra pairs show (to make a total of 6
events). My selection would be the highest pointed 2nd place in the 2019
competition. This would have beeen KPR, but unfortunately there is a rule which
states a maximum of two EC shows per year per country and the allocation is
already taken. The next highest pointed result from 2018 is CAGD. Thus I use my
ability as President to award an additional EC status to CAGD.



The complete and final list is therefore with 11 show events as following:

European Championship show status for 2019




Date


Country


Club


Pairs


Trios


27th April


Poland


PTAT





Trio


18th May


France


EGS





Trio


1st June


Slovakia


SZCH


Pairs





15th June


Germany


CAGD


Pairs





29th June


Italy


AIAG





Trio


13th July


Germany


DGD





Trio


27th July


Austria


ÖGG


Pairs


Trio


10th August


Poland


HWGC


Pairs





21st September


Italy


GGC


Pairs





5th October


Hungary


AME


Pairs





12th October


France


AVF





Trio






Steve Elliott

IKGH President


Mit freundlichen Grüßen
franzpeter
nach oben springen

#2

RE: Re: Incorrect allocation of 2019 IKGH European Championship Shows Bill Galbally -

in Ausstellungen 31.12.2018 17:04
von franzpeter | 9.445 Beiträge

Ing. Marian S t i e r a n k a

Mob.: +421 903452242



From: Marian Stieranka [mailto:mstieranka@stonline.sk]
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2018 12:28 PM
To: 'Bill Galbally'; 'Stephen Elliott'
Cc: '1354491103@qq.com'; 'akguppy@dglz.de'; 'anne-lene@privat.dk';
'awajukkrzysiek@wp.pl'; 'barbe.denis@orange.fr'; 'bjorn.lundmark@spray.se';
'bodo.sikora@gchhotelgroup.com'; 'b.sikora@grandcitymanagement.com';
'casadiguppy@live.nl'; 'cgdcwilliam@outlook.com';
'cristian.salogni@libero.it'; 'dany.schroeder@gmx.de';
'direzioneggc@gmail.com'; 'dlwind@163.com'; 'druck@magoschitz.de';
'eddie.mcknight@nshi.co.uk'; 'elefant@postkasse.com';
'fabienliberge@orange.fr'; 'fischipeter.pe@gmail.com'; 'gkdn@aol.de';
'guppyclubbelgium@hotmail.com'; 'guppyjie@hotmail.com'; 'hwgc98@gmail.com';
'info@oegg.net'; 'info@mariobertocco.it'; 'info@dglz.de';
'jan.budai1@gmail.com'; 'jens.bergner@guppyfreunde.de';
'joernstrahl@gmail.com'; 'klaproehl@gmx.de';
'krzysztof.kelman@zoo.plock.pl'; 'mimi@mildeverlag.at'; 'nloch@gmx.net';
'oziomekj@op.pl'; 'ozkbaris@yahoo.com'; 'peter@schaffarth.de';
'pierkoi@alice.it'; 'ptat94@gmail.com'; 'rainer.hartwich@googlemail.com';
'RitschiSchip@aol.com'; 'sascha.sokolowski@gmx.de';
'simeonbonev@hotmail.com'; 'smiga.lubomir@gmail.com'; 'swamoris@gmail.com';
'tobiasbernsee@web.de'; 'toist@akvariummagazin.hu'; 'twtgpa@gmail.com';
'carlstew80@hotmail.com'; 'hancock@hancock.com.pl'; 'rene.a.wolff@gmx.de';
'91calypso@gmail.com'; 'nancyegelton@gmail.com'; 'jmason3745@aol.com';
'office@guppyclub.bg'; 'svetoslav.raev@gmail.com';
'jacek.ambrozkiewicz@poczta.onet.pl'; 'msc.sosnowski@gmail.com';
'billg@uk.ibm.com'; 'museakira@gmail.com'; 'msc.sosnowski@gmail';
konopka@mail.t-com.sk; garnella@wp.pl; mario.hikanik@gmail.com;
jacek.gaj@vp.pl
Subject: RE: Incorrect allocation of 2019 IKGH European Championship Shows



Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to respond to the following email from
Mr. Bill Galbally. We have an updated version of IHS 2018. For all IKGH
members, this is a prescription that you have voluntarily complied with in
the past. With mixed feelings and excitement, I got acquainted with the IKGH
calendar of exhibitions for 2019. I was impressed by the fact that some
clear IHS rules do not seem to understand. They probably do not want to
understand. The calendar of IKGH exhibitions is simply bad. Unfortunately, I
have to agree with Mr Galbally's view that it does not comply with the
updated IHS rules and that a number of rules have been violated. I'll
explain why I think so.



1) EM Trio

1. Qualified club = ÖGG (1. place in the category SWORD TAILS 333,33)

2. Qualified club = DGD (2. place in the category SHORT TAILS 324.00)

3. Qualified club = EGS (4. place in the category SHORT TAILS 317,33)

4. Qualified club = AFV (11. place in the category SWORD TAILS 290,33)

5. Qualified club = AIAG (13. place in the category SWORD TAILS 255,33)

1. unqualified additional club = PTAT after the decision of the pre-chair
and vice-presidents

(IHS Rule 214.4.7)

Conclusion: IHS violation has not occurred



2) EM Couples

1. Qualified club = ÖGG (1. place in the category SWORD TAILS 502,67)

2. Qualified club = GGC (1. place in the category SHORT TAILS 498,00)

3. Qualified club = SZCH(2. place in the category LARGE TAILS 499,00)

4. Qualified club = CAGD(2. place in the category SWORD TAILS 495,67)

5. Qualified club = KPR(3. place in the category LARGE TAILS 498,67)

1. unqualified additional club = HWGC after the decision of the pre-chair
and vice-presidents

(IHS Rule 214.4.7)

2. unqualified additional club = AMI after the decision of the pre-chair and
vice-presidents

(IHS Rule 214.4.7)

Conclusion: IHS policy violation occurred:

a) 212.§ 2.2.4 - 7 by not releasing the status of the exhibition of the EM
5. Qualified club KPR. It is not true that this would be the 3rd EM show in
one country. Trio and Couples are 2 separate and IKGH competitions. So, it
would only be the 2nd Euro 2019 standings in the Couples category in one
country. If there are any doubts about this interpretation, just look at the
history of the IKGH exhibitions. As an example: in r. 2012 were 4 contests
in Germany (2x Couples and 2x Trio), as well as 4 shows in Poland (2x Pairs
and 2x Trio.

b) The FGUK Club may object to the violation of Rule No.212. § 1.4.6 when
unqualified additional exhibitions were not decided by the vote (but the
vote would probably not change the current ruling).



3) Intervals between exhibitions IKGH. They caused the greatest chaos and
the greatest violation of Rule 215.3.1.- 3 IHS, when a 2 weeks gap is
required between the Pairs and Trio exhibitions, for all the exhibitions of
the EM and IKGH International Exhibitions. I have unofficially warned in the
past that this rule should be seen as an administrative error. It has never
been approved in this wording. The current wording was created by an
incorrect translation of Appendix NO 7 of the IHS to version IHS 2004 from
German to IHS 2009 version in English in 2009. The "Master copy" of IHS 2014
also took over this administrative error (unidentifiable when comparing
English versions 2009 and 2014). In addition, during the 2010-2017 period,
this rule was not applied to "inertia" in practice (see IKGH website).

Conclusion: IHS rule 215.3.1-3 has been violated when the 2 weeks gap
is not observed:

a) 27.8.2019 international exhibition of Couples FGUK and 7.9.2019
international exhibition Couples KPR,

b) 7.9.2019 international exhibition Couples KPR and 11.-15.9.2019 WGC
GCB,

c) 11.-15.9.2019 WGC GCB and 21.9.2019 EM Couples GGC,

d) 26.-28.4.2019 INT GBE and 27.4.2019 EM Trio PTAT,

e) 5.10.2019 EM Couples AME and 12.10.2019 EM Trio AFV

One thing is to talk about IHS violations, the second thing is to
remove these violations. In my opinion, violations of the IHS rules in the
calendar of exhibitions for 21019 can be relatively quickly removed. To
achieve this, it would be necessary:

1. In the EM Couples competitions, the KPR will be awarded as the 5th
Qualified Club from the 2018 European Championship status.

2. Quickly give votes to the IKGH member clubs:

a) The proposal to abolish Rule 212.1.4.6 of the IHS, which is
contradictory and mutually exclusive to rule 214.4.7 of the IHS,

b) The proposal to remove the administrative error in Rule 215.3.1-3 IHS
and the replacement of this rule originally approved by the text: "Beginning
of Guppy Pairs exhibitions should have a gap of at least 2 weeks between
them, while the EM Pairs exhibitions are mandatory. This distance may not be
respected from the EM Guppy trio and Guppy trio's international
exhibitions."

3. Do not consider the results of the vote to be confidential.
Conversely, report back to clubs that voted for a motion against and
abstaining.



In the event of a positive result of the vote and the awarding of the
KPR exhibition, the EM will remove all violations of the IHS rules in the
IKGH 2019 exhibitions calendar.



Best regard



Ing. Marian S t i e r a n k a

Mob.: +421 903452242



From: Bill Galbally [mailto:ChairmanFancyGuppiesUK@outlook.com]
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 2:03 AM
To: Stephen Elliott
Cc: 1354491103@qq.com; akguppy@dglz.de; anne-lene@privat.dk;
awajukkrzysiek@wp.pl; barbe.denis@orange.fr; bjorn.lundmark@spray.se;
bodo.sikora@gchhotelgroup.com; b.sikora@grandcitymanagement.com;
casadiguppy@live.nl; cgdcwilliam@outlook.com; cristian.salogni@libero.it;
dany.schroeder@gmx.de; direzioneggc@gmail.com; dlwind@163.com;
druck@magoschitz.de; eddie.mcknight@nshi.co.uk; elefant@postkasse.com;
fabienliberge@orange.fr; fischipeter.pe@gmail.com; gkdn@aol.de;
guppyclubbelgium@hotmail.com; guppyjie@hotmail.com; hwgc98@gmail.com;
info@oegg.net; info@mariobertocco.it; info@dglz.de; jan.budai1@gmail.com;
jens.bergner@guppyfreunde.de; joernstrahl@gmail.com; klaproehl@gmx.de;
krzysztof.kelman@zoo.plock.pl; mimi@mildeverlag.at; mstieranka@stonline.sk;
nloch@gmx.net; oziomekj@op.pl; ozkbaris@yahoo.com; peter@schaffarth.de;
pierkoi@alice.it; ptat94@gmail.com; rainer.hartwich@googlemail.com;
RitschiSchip@aol.com; sascha.sokolowski@gmx.de; simeonbonev@hotmail.com;
smiga.lubomir@gmail.com; swamoris@gmail.com; tobiasbernsee@web.de;
toist@akvariummagazin.hu; twtgpa@gmail.com; carlstew80@hotmail.com;
hancock@hancock.com.pl; rene.a.wolff@gmx.de; 91calypso@gmail.com;
nancyegelton@gmail.com; jmason3745@aol.com; office@guppyclub.bg;
svetoslav.raev@gmail.com; jacek.ambrozkiewicz@poczta.onet.pl;
msc.sosnowski@gmail.com; billg@uk.ibm.com; museakira@gmail.com;
msc.sosnowski@gmail
Subject: Re: Incorrect allocation of 2019 IKGH European Championship Shows





Steve & Team,



Firstly - apologies if I have not used the most up-to-date distribution
list - this is the latest I can find. Please forward on to anyone I have
missed.



I agree that the calculations SHOULD be straightforward, as we have just
recently held an IKGH meeting in Slovakia, where we settled the confusion in
the rules relating to the allocations of shows since you became President.
However - the 2019 EC show allocation is wrong.



THE RULES ARE CLEAR!

in the current Rule book 2015 see supplement 4 on page 38 = sections 4. and
8.

4. Five IKGH members are allocated a European Championship show by their
participation in EC shows

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

8. The other two EC shows must be given to those Associations that have not
organised an EC Show for the longest time, with the condition that they make
an application for an EC show according to the IHS.



5+2=7



These rules were explained by our former President Eddy Vanvoorden last
year during confusion. Again this year when some were confused at the IKGH
Meeting, Denis Barbe clarified by producing the rule book & pointing out the
section on show allocation:



5 shows are awarded to winning clubs on merit (i.e. in relation to their
position in the league table and points scored. 2 shows are then awarded to
clubs who have not shown for the longest time. 5 + 2 = 7 shows each for
Trios and Pairs. It could not be simpler? An added complication is that
the President in his/her generosity can decide to award an extra show - but
this is not compulsory or necessarily expected. I note that previous
Presidents have shown such generosity.

Clarity:

I noted at the IKGH meeting that yourself Steve and others were confused by
the method at which the 5 shows awarded on merit were calculated. It is a
relatively straightforward calculation which again Denis Barbe explained:
1 show goes to the winners of of each tail general class i.e. Broad Tail,
Sword Tail, Short Tail, making 3. Then 2 shows are awarded to the two
competitors with the highest points not covered by the general class
winners. This can mean 2 in the same general Tail Categories or from
different, depending on the results. Previous confusion was due to an
expectation that there should be 3 shows available here - one for each of
the runners-up. Denis clearly explained that this is not the case - it is
simply the next 2 highest scores = in any Tail Category.



The shows for 2019 are not allocated as per the Rules. The whole point of
the 2 days of IKGH Meeting was to clarify rules so the expectation is that
we now stick to them?



5 shows proposal not carried

A proposal from the President at the IKGH meeting that there should be only
5 shows each in Trios and Pairs. This - alongside other proposals on
changing the number for shows allocation, was subject to as much discussion
at the meeting as all the other proposals put together. The only proposal
on this subject that was carried was that a club can now host both a Trios
and a Pairs show. All others were not carried. This included the
President's proposal stating that we should go to 5 shows only. This was
rejected in open debate & cannot be changed post the IKGH Meeting.



If this was all clarified so recently at an IKGH meeting - EC Shows should
be allocated correctly? The President stated twice at the meeting, once at
the start, and once at the finish, that "the President is simply an
administrator, here to carry out the wishes and decisions of the IKGH - it
is your meeting and for you as the IKGH members to decide on the rules, not
me." So we are expecting you to carry this out rather than make arbitrary
decisions post the event.



Everyone who applied for a Trios Show has one so I think everyone will agree
with you that this calculation here has been straightforward & agreed.



For Pairs Show, the number is 5 but the Rules state 7.

3 shows awarded for merit i.e. one to each of the winners of each Tail
Category (Broad, Sword, Short). 2 shows awarded for clubs that have not had
shows for the longest time. Missing are the 2 shows awarded for highest
pointed Category.



You state below that you do not understand this category - but lack of
understanding is no reason not to follow the rule and precedence -
especially as it was specifically discussed and fully explained at the
recent IKGH meeting. The rules are the rules, and THE RULES ARE CLEAR! If,
as you state, you are personally unclear on these rules, or feel that they
are "unfair and prejudicial" (I can't think why - it has not caused any
issue with anyone else) - then you should propose to change them and we as
an organisation should vote on this. But until that is done, the rules are
the rules. I again remind everyone that we JUST HAD the discussion on
moving to 5 shows and it was NOT carried at the IKGH Meeting.



You then go on to state that the winners deserve their prize of a show but
you are here specifically excluding this?

Why do you use the term "alleged" for the two other shows to be awarded for
the highest pointed winners? This is not alleged in any way, shape, or form.
It is simply & very clearly written in the rules.

I for one agree with you that the winners deserve their prize - so let's not
seek to restrict this.



I also agree that Clubs not taking part in other EC shows is a problem. We
have suffered this in the past in my own Club (FGUK) but we made a concerted
effort to address this. Result was that we had 11 members SHOWING ABROAD
(i.e. not counting the local in-country show) in 2017 which put as 3rd in
terms of members showing, behind only Poland and Germany. We were gaining
real momentum here, so what a pity it was all totally disrupted by several
people deciding to leave and set up there own "clubs" for individuals -
throwing the progress completely off course for 2018.



To address this issue, IKGH might want to in future consider a merit system
of awarding a show to a smaller club that has shown itself to be actively
participating as much as could be expected given their circumstances. Or
come up with some other method to reward and encourage participation.



You also state that "the more experienced breeders know that a total of 10
EC shows per year is enough and that 14 EC shows per year is too much."

I challenge that. We have plenty of experienced breeders such as 2 former
IKGH Presidents have proved by awarding 14 shows in a season that they would
not agree. It is not the experience of a breeder that predicates this
viewpoint, but the certainty of being guaranteed a show. As far as I can
tell the only people agreeing that 5 shows is more than enough come from
Germany and Austria - countries that have themselves NEVER missed an EC show
season and are highly unlikely to do so ever in future. So it is easy for
them to agree such measures. In fact these breeders are very open and
honest in their reasoning for limiting the number of shows - the less shows
there are, the more it forces IKGH competitors to send fish to their
guaranteed shows!

I CALL ON THOSE SEEKING TO LIMIT THE NUMBER OF SHOWS TO BELOW THAT
DEMANDED BY THE PRESENT RULES TO DO THE HONOURABLE THING AND GIVE UP THEIR
OWN SHOWS, before imposing such unwanted restrictions only on others.

An alternative view is that by restricting Shows you are restricting the
availability of good fish genetics being distributed around Europe which
limits the hobby - why would anyone want to do that?



Can we therefore ask Steve that you carry out the duties of IKGH President
properly and appropriately according to the current rules, and award 7 pairs
shows for this coming season of 2019.



Bill Galbally
Chairman
Fancy Guppies UK



_____

From: Stephen Elliott
Sent: 11 December 2018 08:04
To: IKGH.Presidenteurope.com
Subject: Allocation of 2019 IKGH European Championship Show status





IKGH 2019 European Championship Show Status

We are at the end of the 2018 show season.

I congratulate all competitors and also all the clubs that organised a
European Championship Show.

I attach the final results, Congratulations to all the winners. I thank
Peter for his work with this and for the website that has shown all the
results as they have become available.

So now the question that everyone is asking. Who will be awarded a European
Championship show for 2019?

I am sure that everyone is aware that applications can be accepted up to the
30th November and until then we don't know who has applied for an EC show.
This is the reason for the delay in publishing the 2019 European
Championship list. Indeed there was more than one application received just
in time !



As previously in 2017 the calculations seem straight forward and are
according to the rules.

The easy part is the three winners of the competition classes and the two
clubs that have not had a show for the longest time. This gives 5 shows (a
total of 10 when pairs and trios are added together).

The part that some think should be considered is the alleged two other shows
for highest pointed winners. This is not clear in the rules. How would we
select two from the three categories ? Do we simply say the highest pointed
from all three categories amalgamated is selected ? Potentially the two
could then be selected from one category which would then exclude the other
two which seems unfair and prejudicial.

I agree that the awarding of EC status should be won in competition. For
those that suggest it is always the same clubs that win and so exclude the
newer and less able clubs, I would say that the winners deserve their prize
but I also see the wisdom of having two shows selected from those that have
not had an EC show for the longest time.







European Championship Show status should be an honour and privilege and not
simply something available to every show. This would devalue the
competition.

The more experienced breeders know that a total of 10 EC shows per year is
enough and that 14 EC shows per year is too much.

Others, I have been told, are only interested to hold a EC show themselves
in the mistaken belief that it will bring their club prosperity. These are
also the people that do not seem to take part in the competition themselves
and support other shows, but they still want to host an EC show. They seem
to have a selfish opinion and not one regarding the general benefit of the
IKGH membership and EC competition.

On this occasion I also have to consider that one club has been awarded both
a pairs show and a trio show at the same event. I am completely satisfied
that they have the experience, capability and resources to do this and
congratulate them in being the first ever to do this.



After careful consideration I confirm the following EC status for 2019 with
their show date:

Pairs

Large tails

1st Place Hermann Ernst Magoschitz DGD did not
apply

2nd Place Jan Budai SZCH
1st June



Sword tails

1st Place Michael Milde ÖGG
27th July 2019



Short tails

1st Place Cristian Sologni GGC
21st September 2019







The other clubs that applied for a European Championship Show for pairs,
with the date of their last European Championship Show were:

Show date Club Date of last EC show

15th June CAGD 7th July 2018

10TH August HWGC Never hosted

24th August FGUK 29th September 2018

7th September KPR 8th September 2018

5th October AME Never hosted



>From the list, it is clear that HWGC and AME have not had an EC show for the
longest time !

That gives a total of five 2019 European Championship shows for pairs.



SZCH 1st June Slovakia

ÖGG 27th July Austria

HWGC 10th August Poland

GGC 21st September Italy

AME 5th October Hungary.











Trios

This is slightly easier to calculate. There are 6 clubs in total that have
applied.

Poland PTAT 27th April 2019

France EGS 18th May 2019

Italy AIAG 29th June 2019

Germany DGD 13th July 2019

Austria ÖGG 27th July 2019

France AVF 12th October 2019



3 are selected from the winners of the European Championship competition
2018. 2 are selected from the remaining clubs who have not had a show for
the longest time. That leaves one lone 'losing ' club. As per my statement
last year I think it unreasonable that one club is disappointed by this
situation, so I use my ability as President to award an additional EC status
and confirm that all six applicants are awarded EC status for 2019 without
the need of calculation.





Furthermore, I note that there are 4 pairs shows for 2019 and also 5 shows
for trios, and one show that is hosting both a Trio competition and a Pairs
competition. I would like to award an extra pairs show (to make a total of 6
events). My selection would be the highest pointed 2nd place in the 2019
competition. This would have beeen KPR, but unfortunately there is a rule
which states a maximum of two EC shows per year per country and the
allocation is already taken. The next highest pointed result from 2018 is
CAGD. Thus I use my ability as President to award an additional EC status to
CAGD.



The complete and final list is therefore with 11 show events as following:


European Championship show status for 2019













Date

Country

Club

Pairs

Trios


27th April

Poland

PTAT



Trio


18th May

France

EGS



Trio


1st June

Slovakia

SZCH

Pairs




15th June

Germany

CAGD

Pairs




29th June

Italy

AIAG



Trio


13th July

Germany

DGD



Trio


27th July

Austria

ÖGG

Pairs

Trio


10th August

Poland

HWGC

Pairs




21st September

Italy

GGC

Pairs




5th October

Hungary

AME

Pairs




12th October

France

AVF



Trio





Steve Elliott

IKGH President







---
Táto správa bola skontrolovaná na prítomnosť vírusov programom Avast
Antivirus.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


Mit freundlichen Grüßen
franzpeter
nach oben springen

#3

WG: Incorrect allocation of 2019 IKGH European Championship Shows

in Ausstellungen 01.01.2019 22:51
von franzpeter | 9.445 Beiträge

Hi all,



in my opinion this should be changed to the correct rules, if possible.



All the best for you for 2019 and for all guppy shows.



Harro Hieronimus



From: Marian Stieranka [ <mailto:mstieranka@stonline.sk>
mailto:mstieranka@stonline.sk]
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2018 12:28 PM
To: 'Bill Galbally'; 'Stephen Elliott'
Cc: '1354491103@qq.com'; 'akguppy@dglz.de'; 'anne-lene@privat.dk';
'awajukkrzysiek@wp.pl'; 'barbe.denis@orange.fr'; 'bjorn.lundmark@spray.se';
'bodo.sikora@gchhotelgroup.com'; 'b.sikora@grandcitymanagement.com';
'casadiguppy@live.nl'; 'cgdcwilliam@outlook.com';
'cristian.salogni@libero.it'; 'dany.schroeder@gmx.de';
'direzioneggc@gmail.com'; 'dlwind@163.com'; 'druck@magoschitz.de';
'eddie.mcknight@nshi.co.uk'; 'elefant@postkasse.com';
'fabienliberge@orange.fr'; 'fischipeter.pe@gmail.com'; 'gkdn@aol.de';
'guppyclubbelgium@hotmail.com'; 'guppyjie@hotmail.com'; 'hwgc98@gmail.com';
'info@oegg.net'; 'info@mariobertocco.it'; 'info@dglz.de';
'jan.budai1@gmail.com'; 'jens.bergner@guppyfreunde.de';
'joernstrahl@gmail.com'; 'klaproehl@gmx.de';
'krzysztof.kelman@zoo.plock.pl'; 'mimi@mildeverlag.at'; 'nloch@gmx.net';
'oziomekj@op.pl'; 'ozkbaris@yahoo.com'; 'peter@schaffarth.de';
'pierkoi@alice.it'; 'ptat94@gmail.com'; 'rainer.hartwich@googlemail.com';
'RitschiSchip@aol.com'; 'sascha.sokolowski@gmx.de';
'simeonbonev@hotmail.com'; 'smiga.lubomir@gmail.com'; 'swamoris@gmail.com';
'tobiasbernsee@web.de'; 'toist@akvariummagazin.hu'; 'twtgpa@gmail.com';
'carlstew80@hotmail.com'; 'hancock@hancock.com.pl'; 'rene.a.wolff@gmx.de';
'91calypso@gmail.com'; 'nancyegelton@gmail.com'; 'jmason3745@aol.com';
'office@guppyclub.bg'; 'svetoslav.raev@gmail.com';
'jacek.ambrozkiewicz@poczta.onet.pl'; 'msc.sosnowski@gmail.com';
'billg@uk.ibm.com'; 'museakira@gmail.com'; 'msc.sosnowski@gmail';
<mailto:konopka@mail.t-com.sk> konopka@mail.t-com.sk;
<mailto:garnella@wp.pl> garnella@wp.pl;
<mailto:mario.hikanik@gmail.com>
mario.hikanik@gmail.com; <mailto:jacek.gaj@vp.pl> jacek.gaj@vp.pl
Subject: RE: Incorrect allocation of 2019 IKGH European Championship Shows



Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to respond to the following email from
Mr. Bill Galbally. We have an updated version of IHS 2018. For all IKGH
members, this is a prescription that you have voluntarily complied with in
the past. With mixed feelings and excitement, I got acquainted with the IKGH
calendar of exhibitions for 2019. I was impressed by the fact that some
clear IHS rules do not seem to understand. They probably do not want to
understand. The calendar of IKGH exhibitions is simply bad. Unfortunately, I
have to agree with Mr Galbally's view that it does not comply with the
updated IHS rules and that a number of rules have been violated. I'll
explain why I think so.



1) EM Trio

1. Qualified club = ÖGG (1. place in the category SWORD TAILS 333,33)

2. Qualified club = DGD (2. place in the category SHORT TAILS 324.00)

3. Qualified club = EGS (4. place in the category SHORT TAILS 317,33)

4. Qualified club = AFV (11. place in the category SWORD TAILS 290,33)

5. Qualified club = AIAG (13. place in the category SWORD TAILS 255,33)

1. unqualified additional club = PTAT after the decision of the pre-chair
and vice-presidents

(IHS Rule 214.4.7)

Conclusion: IHS violation has not occurred



2) EM Couples

1. Qualified club = ÖGG (1. place in the category SWORD TAILS 502,67)

2. Qualified club = GGC (1. place in the category SHORT TAILS 498,00)

3. Qualified club = SZCH(2. place in the category LARGE TAILS 499,00)

4. Qualified club = CAGD(2. place in the category SWORD TAILS 495,67)

5. Qualified club = KPR(3. place in the category LARGE TAILS 498,67)

1. unqualified additional club = HWGC after the decision of the pre-chair
and vice-presidents

(IHS Rule 214.4.7)

2. unqualified additional club = AMI after the decision of the pre-chair and
vice-presidents

(IHS Rule 214.4.7)

Conclusion: IHS policy violation occurred:

a) 212.§ 2.2.4 - 7 by not releasing the status of the exhibition of the EM
5. Qualified club KPR. It is not true that this would be the 3rd EM show in
one country. Trio and Couples are 2 separate and IKGH competitions. So, it
would only be the 2nd Euro 2019 standings in the Couples category in one
country. If there are any doubts about this interpretation, just look at the
history of the IKGH exhibitions. As an example: in r. 2012 were 4 contests
in Germany (2x Couples and 2x Trio), as well as 4 shows in Poland (2x Pairs
and 2x Trio.

b) The FGUK Club may object to the violation of Rule No.212. § 1.4.6 when
unqualified additional exhibitions were not decided by the vote (but the
vote would probably not change the current ruling).



3) Intervals between exhibitions IKGH. They caused the greatest chaos and
the greatest violation of Rule 215.3.1.- 3 IHS, when a 2 weeks gap is
required between the Pairs and Trio exhibitions, for all the exhibitions of
the EM and IKGH International Exhibitions. I have unofficially warned in the
past that this rule should be seen as an administrative error. It has never
been approved in this wording. The current wording was created by an
incorrect translation of Appendix NO 7 of the IHS to version IHS 2004 from
German to IHS 2009 version in English in 2009. The "Master copy" of IHS 2014
also took over this administrative error (unidentifiable when comparing
English versions 2009 and 2014). In addition, during the 2010-2017 period,
this rule was not applied to "inertia" in practice (see IKGH website).

Conclusion: IHS rule 215.3.1-3 has been violated when the 2 weeks gap
is not observed:

a. 27.8.2019 international exhibition of Couples FGUK and 7.9.2019
international exhibition Couples KPR,
b. 7.9.2019 international exhibition Couples KPR and 11.-15.9.2019 WGC
GCB,
c. 11.-15.9.2019 WGC GCB and 21.9.2019 EM Couples GGC,
d. 26.-28.4.2019 INT GBE and 27.4.2019 EM Trio PTAT,

e) 5.10.2019 EM Couples AME and 12.10.2019 EM Trio AFV

One thing is to talk about IHS violations, the second thing is to
remove these violations. In my opinion, violations of the IHS rules in the
calendar of exhibitions for 21019 can be relatively quickly removed. To
achieve this, it would be necessary:

1. In the EM Couples competitions, the KPR will be awarded as the 5th
Qualified Club from the 2018 European Championship status.

2. Quickly give votes to the IKGH member clubs:

a. The proposal to abolish Rule 212.1.4.6 of the IHS, which is
contradictory and mutually exclusive to rule 214.4.7 of the IHS,
b. The proposal to remove the administrative error in Rule 215.3.1-3
IHS and the replacement of this rule originally approved by the text:
"Beginning of Guppy Pairs exhibitions should have a gap of at least 2 weeks
between them, while the EM Pairs exhibitions are mandatory. This distance
may not be respected from the EM Guppy trio and Guppy trio's international
exhibitions."

3. Do not consider the results of the vote to be confidential.
Conversely, report back to clubs that voted for a motion against and
abstaining.



In the event of a positive result of the vote and the awarding of the
KPR exhibition, the EM will remove all violations of the IHS rules in the
IKGH 2019 exhibitions calendar.



Best regard



Ing. Marian S t i e r a n k a

Mob.: +421 903452242



From: Bill Galbally [ <mailto:ChairmanFancyGuppiesUK@outlook.com>
mailto:ChairmanFancyGuppiesUK@outlook.com]
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 2:03 AM
To: Stephen Elliott
Cc: <mailto:1354491103@qq.com> 1354491103@qq.com;
<mailto:akguppy@dglz.de>
akguppy@dglz.de; <mailto:anne-lene@privat.dk>
anne-lene@privat.dk;
<mailto:awajukkrzysiek@wp.pl> awajukkrzysiek@wp.pl;
<mailto:barbe.denis@orange.fr> barbe.denis@orange.fr;
<mailto:bjorn.lundmark@spray.se> bjorn.lundmark@spray.se;
<mailto:bodo.sikora@gchhotelgroup.com>
bodo.sikora@gchhotelgroup.com;
<mailto:b.sikora@grandcitymanagement.com>
b.sikora@grandcitymanagement.com;
<mailto:casadiguppy@live.nl> casadiguppy@live.nl;
<mailto:cgdcwilliam@outlook.com> cgdcwilliam@outlook.com;
<mailto:cristian.salogni@libero.it> cristian.salogni@libero.it;
<mailto:dany.schroeder@gmx.de> dany.schroeder@gmx.de;
<mailto:direzioneggc@gmail.com> direzioneggc@gmail.com;
<mailto:dlwind@163.com> dlwind@163.com;
<mailto:druck@magoschitz.de>
druck@magoschitz.de; <mailto:eddie.mcknight@nshi.co.uk>
eddie.mcknight@nshi.co.uk; <mailto:elefant@postkasse.com>
elefant@postkasse.com; <mailto:fabienliberge@orange.fr>
fabienliberge@orange.fr; <mailto:fischipeter.pe@gmail.com>
fischipeter.pe@gmail.com; <mailto:gkdn@aol.de> gkdn@aol.de;
<mailto:guppyclubbelgium@hotmail.com>
guppyclubbelgium@hotmail.com;
<mailto:guppyjie@hotmail.com> guppyjie@hotmail.com;
<mailto:hwgc98@gmail.com> hwgc98@gmail.com;
<mailto:info@oegg.net>
info@oegg.net; <mailto:info@mariobertocco.it>
info@mariobertocco.it;
<mailto:info@dglz.de> info@dglz.de;
<mailto:jan.budai1@gmail.com>
jan.budai1@gmail.com; <mailto:jens.bergner@guppyfreunde.de>
jens.bergner@guppyfreunde.de; <mailto:joernstrahl@gmail.com>
joernstrahl@gmail.com; <mailto:klaproehl@gmx.de>
klaproehl@gmx.de;
<mailto:krzysztof.kelman@zoo.plock.pl>
krzysztof.kelman@zoo.plock.pl;
<mailto:mimi@mildeverlag.at> mimi@mildeverlag.at;
<mailto:mstieranka@stonline.sk> mstieranka@stonline.sk;
<mailto:nloch@gmx.net> nloch@gmx.net;
<mailto:oziomekj@op.pl>
oziomekj@op.pl; <mailto:ozkbaris@yahoo.com> ozkbaris@yahoo.com;
<mailto:peter@schaffarth.de> peter@schaffarth.de;
<mailto:pierkoi@alice.it>
pierkoi@alice.it; <mailto:ptat94@gmail.com> ptat94@gmail.com;
<mailto:rainer.hartwich@googlemail.com>
rainer.hartwich@googlemail.com;
<mailto:RitschiSchip@aol.com> RitschiSchip@aol.com;
<mailto:sascha.sokolowski@gmx.de> sascha.sokolowski@gmx.de;
<mailto:simeonbonev@hotmail.com> simeonbonev@hotmail.com;
<mailto:smiga.lubomir@gmail.com> smiga.lubomir@gmail.com;
<mailto:swamoris@gmail.com> swamoris@gmail.com;
<mailto:tobiasbernsee@web.de> tobiasbernsee@web.de;
<mailto:toist@akvariummagazin.hu> toist@akvariummagazin.hu;
<mailto:twtgpa@gmail.com> twtgpa@gmail.com;
<mailto:carlstew80@hotmail.com>
carlstew80@hotmail.com; <mailto:hancock@hancock.com.pl>
hancock@hancock.com.pl; <mailto:rene.a.wolff@gmx.de>
rene.a.wolff@gmx.de;
<mailto:91calypso@gmail.com> 91calypso@gmail.com;
<mailto:nancyegelton@gmail.com> nancyegelton@gmail.com;
<mailto:jmason3745@aol.com> jmason3745@aol.com;
<mailto:office@guppyclub.bg> office@guppyclub.bg;
<mailto:svetoslav.raev@gmail.com> svetoslav.raev@gmail.com;
<mailto:jacek.ambrozkiewicz@poczta.onet.pl>
jacek.ambrozkiewicz@poczta.onet.pl;
<mailto:msc.sosnowski@gmail.com>
msc.sosnowski@gmail.com; <mailto:billg@uk.ibm.com>
billg@uk.ibm.com;
<mailto:museakira@gmail.com> museakira@gmail.com;
<mailto:msc.sosnowski@gmail> msc.sosnowski@gmail
Subject: Re: Incorrect allocation of 2019 IKGH European Championship Shows





Steve & Team,



Firstly - apologies if I have not used the most up-to-date distribution
list - this is the latest I can find. Please forward on to anyone I have
missed.



I agree that the calculations SHOULD be straightforward, as we have just
recently held an IKGH meeting in Slovakia, where we settled the confusion in
the rules relating to the allocations of shows since you became President.
However - the 2019 EC show allocation is wrong.



THE RULES ARE CLEAR!

in the current Rule book 2015 see supplement 4 on page 38 = sections 4. and
8.

4. Five IKGH members are allocated a European Championship show by their
participation in EC shows

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

8. The other two EC shows must be given to those Associations that have not
organised an EC Show for the longest time, with the condition that they make
an application for an EC show according to the IHS.



5+2=7



These rules were explained by our former President Eddy Vanvoorden last
year during confusion. Again this year when some were confused at the IKGH
Meeting, Denis Barbe clarified by producing the rule book & pointing out the
section on show allocation:



5 shows are awarded to winning clubs on merit (i.e. in relation to their
position in the league table and points scored. 2 shows are then awarded to
clubs who have not shown for the longest time. 5 + 2 = 7 shows each for
Trios and Pairs. It could not be simpler? An added complication is that
the President in his/her generosity can decide to award an extra show - but
this is not compulsory or necessarily expected. I note that previous
Presidents have shown such generosity.

Clarity:

I noted at the IKGH meeting that yourself Steve and others were confused by
the method at which the 5 shows awarded on merit were calculated. It is a
relatively straightforward calculation which again Denis Barbe explained:
1 show goes to the winners of of each tail general class i.e. Broad Tail,
Sword Tail, Short Tail, making 3. Then 2 shows are awarded to the two
competitors with the highest points not covered by the general class
winners. This can mean 2 in the same general Tail Categories or from
different, depending on the results. Previous confusion was due to an
expectation that there should be 3 shows available here - one for each of
the runners-up. Denis clearly explained that this is not the case - it is
simply the next 2 highest scores = in any Tail Category.



The shows for 2019 are not allocated as per the Rules. The whole point of
the 2 days of IKGH Meeting was to clarify rules so the expectation is that
we now stick to them?



5 shows proposal not carried

A proposal from the President at the IKGH meeting that there should be only
5 shows each in Trios and Pairs. This - alongside other proposals on
changing the number for shows allocation, was subject to as much discussion
at the meeting as all the other proposals put together. The only proposal
on this subject that was carried was that a club can now host both a Trios
and a Pairs show. All others were not carried. This included the
President's proposal stating that we should go to 5 shows only. This was
rejected in open debate & cannot be changed post the IKGH Meeting.



If this was all clarified so recently at an IKGH meeting - EC Shows should
be allocated correctly? The President stated twice at the meeting, once at
the start, and once at the finish, that "the President is simply an
administrator, here to carry out the wishes and decisions of the IKGH - it
is your meeting and for you as the IKGH members to decide on the rules, not
me." So we are expecting you to carry this out rather than make arbitrary
decisions post the event.



Everyone who applied for a Trios Show has one so I think everyone will agree
with you that this calculation here has been straightforward & agreed.



For Pairs Show, the number is 5 but the Rules state 7.

3 shows awarded for merit i.e. one to each of the winners of each Tail
Category (Broad, Sword, Short). 2 shows awarded for clubs that have not had
shows for the longest time. Missing are the 2 shows awarded for highest
pointed Category.



You state below that you do not understand this category - but lack of
understanding is no reason not to follow the rule and precedence -
especially as it was specifically discussed and fully explained at the
recent IKGH meeting. The rules are the rules, and THE RULES ARE CLEAR! If,
as you state, you are personally unclear on these rules, or feel that they
are "unfair and prejudicial" (I can't think why - it has not caused any
issue with anyone else) - then you should propose to change them and we as
an organisation should vote on this. But until that is done, the rules are
the rules. I again remind everyone that we JUST HAD the discussion on
moving to 5 shows and it was NOT carried at the IKGH Meeting.



You then go on to state that the winners deserve their prize of a show but
you are here specifically excluding this?

Why do you use the term "alleged" for the two other shows to be awarded for
the highest pointed winners? This is not alleged in any way, shape, or form.
It is simply & very clearly written in the rules.

I for one agree with you that the winners deserve their prize - so let's not
seek to restrict this.



I also agree that Clubs not taking part in other EC shows is a problem. We
have suffered this in the past in my own Club (FGUK) but we made a concerted
effort to address this. Result was that we had 11 members SHOWING ABROAD
(i.e. not counting the local in-country show) in 2017 which put as 3rd in
terms of members showing, behind only Poland and Germany. We were gaining
real momentum here, so what a pity it was all totally disrupted by several
people deciding to leave and set up there own "clubs" for individuals -
throwing the progress completely off course for 2018.



To address this issue, IKGH might want to in future consider a merit system
of awarding a show to a smaller club that has shown itself to be actively
participating as much as could be expected given their circumstances. Or
come up with some other method to reward and encourage participation.



You also state that "the more experienced breeders know that a total of 10
EC shows per year is enough and that 14 EC shows per year is too much."

I challenge that. We have plenty of experienced breeders such as 2 former
IKGH Presidents have proved by awarding 14 shows in a season that they would
not agree. It is not the experience of a breeder that predicates this
viewpoint, but the certainty of being guaranteed a show. As far as I can
tell the only people agreeing that 5 shows is more than enough come from
Germany and Austria - countries that have themselves NEVER missed an EC show
season and are highly unlikely to do so ever in future. So it is easy for
them to agree such measures. In fact these breeders are very open and
honest in their reasoning for limiting the number of shows - the less shows
there are, the more it forces IKGH competitors to send fish to their
guaranteed shows!

I CALL ON THOSE SEEKING TO LIMIT THE NUMBER OF SHOWS TO BELOW THAT
DEMANDED BY THE PRESENT RULES TO DO THE HONOURABLE THING AND GIVE UP THEIR
OWN SHOWS, before imposing such unwanted restrictions only on others.

An alternative view is that by restricting Shows you are restricting the
availability of good fish genetics being distributed around Europe which
limits the hobby - why would anyone want to do that?



Can we therefore ask Steve that you carry out the duties of IKGH President
properly and appropriately according to the current rules, and award 7 pairs
shows for this coming season of 2019.



Bill Galbally
Chairman
Fancy Guppies UK



_____

From: Stephen Elliott < <mailto:IKGH.President@europe.com>
IKGH.President@europe.com>
Sent: 11 December 2018 08:04
To: IKGH.Presidenteurope.com
Subject: Allocation of 2019 IKGH European Championship Show status





IKGH 2019 European Championship Show Status

We are at the end of the 2018 show season.

I congratulate all competitors and also all the clubs that organised a
European Championship Show.

I attach the final results, Congratulations to all the winners. I thank
Peter for his work with this and for the website that has shown all the
results as they have become available.

So now the question that everyone is asking. Who will be awarded a European
Championship show for 2019?

I am sure that everyone is aware that applications can be accepted up to the
30th November and until then we don't know who has applied for an EC show.
This is the reason for the delay in publishing the 2019 European
Championship list. Indeed there was more than one application received just
in time !



As previously in 2017 the calculations seem straight forward and are
according to the rules.

The easy part is the three winners of the competition classes and the two
clubs that have not had a show for the longest time. This gives 5 shows (a
total of 10 when pairs and trios are added together).

The part that some think should be considered is the alleged two other shows
for highest pointed winners. This is not clear in the rules. How would we
select two from the three categories ? Do we simply say the highest pointed
from all three categories amalgamated is selected ? Potentially the two
could then be selected from one category which would then exclude the other
two which seems unfair and prejudicial.

I agree that the awarding of EC status should be won in competition. For
those that suggest it is always the same clubs that win and so exclude the
newer and less able clubs, I would say that the winners deserve their prize
but I also see the wisdom of having two shows selected from those that have
not had an EC show for the longest time.







European Championship Show status should be an honour and privilege and not
simply something available to every show. This would devalue the
competition.

The more experienced breeders know that a total of 10 EC shows per year is
enough and that 14 EC shows per year is too much.

Others, I have been told, are only interested to hold a EC show themselves
in the mistaken belief that it will bring their club prosperity. These are
also the people that do not seem to take part in the competition themselves
and support other shows, but they still want to host an EC show. They seem
to have a selfish opinion and not one regarding the general benefit of the
IKGH membership and EC competition.

On this occasion I also have to consider that one club has been awarded both
a pairs show and a trio show at the same event. I am completely satisfied
that they have the experience, capability and resources to do this and
congratulate them in being the first ever to do this.



After careful consideration I confirm the following EC status for 2019 with
their show date:

Pairs

Large tails

1st Place Hermann Ernst Magoschitz DGD did not
apply

2nd Place Jan Budai SZCH
1st June



Sword tails

1st Place Michael Milde ÖGG
27th July 2019



Short tails

1st Place Cristian Sologni GGC
21st September 2019







The other clubs that applied for a European Championship Show for pairs,
with the date of their last European Championship Show were:

Show date Club Date of last EC show

15th June CAGD 7th July 2018

10TH August HWGC Never hosted

24th August FGUK 29th September 2018

7th September KPR 8th September 2018

5th October AME Never hosted



>From the list, it is clear that HWGC and AME have not had an EC show for the
longest time !

That gives a total of five 2019 European Championship shows for pairs.



SZCH 1st June Slovakia

ÖGG 27th July Austria

HWGC 10th August Poland

GGC 21st September Italy

AME 5th October Hungary.











Trios

This is slightly easier to calculate. There are 6 clubs in total that have
applied.

Poland PTAT 27th April 2019

France EGS 18th May 2019

Italy AIAG 29th June 2019

Germany DGD 13th July 2019

Austria ÖGG 27th July 2019

France AVF 12th October 2019



3 are selected from the winners of the European Championship competition
2018. 2 are selected from the remaining clubs who have not had a show for
the longest time. That leaves one lone 'losing ' club. As per my statement
last year I think it unreasonable that one club is disappointed by this
situation, so I use my ability as President to award an additional EC status
and confirm that all six applicants are awarded EC status for 2019 without
the need of calculation.





Furthermore, I note that there are 4 pairs shows for 2019 and also 5 shows
for trios, and one show that is hosting both a Trio competition and a Pairs
competition. I would like to award an extra pairs show (to make a total of 6
events). My selection would be the highest pointed 2nd place in the 2019
competition. This would have beeen KPR, but unfortunately there is a rule
which states a maximum of two EC shows per year per country and the
allocation is already taken. The next highest pointed result from 2018 is
CAGD. Thus I use my ability as President to award an additional EC status to
CAGD.



The complete and final list is therefore with 11 show events as following:


European Championship show status for 2019













Date

Country

Club

Pairs

Trios


27th April

Poland

PTAT



Trio


18th May

France

EGS



Trio


1st June

Slovakia

SZCH

Pairs




15th June

Germany

CAGD

Pairs




29th June

Italy

AIAG



Trio


13th July

Germany

DGD



Trio


27th July

Austria

ÖGG

Pairs

Trio


10th August

Poland

HWGC

Pairs




21st September

Italy

GGC

Pairs




5th October

Hungary

AME

Pairs




12th October

France

AVF



Trio





Steve Elliott

IKGH President









<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medi...link&utm_campai
gn=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>

Bez virů.
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medi...link&utm_campai
gn=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> www.avast.com


Mit freundlichen Grüßen
franzpeter
nach oben springen


Besucher
0 Mitglieder und 8 Gäste sind Online

Wir begrüßen unser neuestes Mitglied: huangjian123
Forum Statistiken
Das Forum hat 2523 Themen und 13174 Beiträge.

Heute war 1 Mitglied Online :

Besucherrekord: 71 Benutzer (12.03.2015 19:47).

Xobor Einfach ein eigenes Forum erstellen | ©Xobor.de